Vicki Polin Interviewed by Luke Ford regarding rabbi Saul Berman
Luke: "What is rabbi Saul Berman's complaint with the center?"Vicki: "His complaint has mainly to do with our handling of the case of rabbi Mordechai Gafni. From the beginning, I've had no idea where he was coming from and why he is trying to protect an individual who confessed to statuary rape a 13-year old girl. Rabbi Gafni has never shown any signs of remorse. He has never made teshuva [repentance] to the individual he assaulted. Rabbi Berman has sent The Awareness Center several long elaborate letters of complaint. No matter what we did or said, he just wasn't satisfied. It's obvious that he is lacking the needed education so that he could have a better understanding of sex offenders and in working with survivors of sexual violence. It saddens and scares me that a man of his statute is not willing to learn."
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Luke Ford's Entire Interview with Vicki Polin
December 15, 2004
I call Vicki Polin Wednesday night, December 15, 2004. She runs The Awareness Center.
Luke Ford's Entire Interview with Vicki Polin
December 15, 2004
I call Vicki Polin Wednesday night, December 15, 2004. She runs The Awareness Center.
Luke: "Tell me why you started The Awareness Center?"
Vicki:
"I've been working in the sexual victimization field since 1985. I
started as a volunteer, and then went back to school to get my degrees.
As time has gone on, I've gotten more in touch with my Jewish identity. I
started to realize that there was nothing out there for the Jewish
survivors of sexual violence. For years I told other people to start
something, no one did, so I ended up creating The Awareness Center.
"It
was a gradual process. In April of 1999, I started changing my private
practice web page into The Awareness Center as it is now.
"Back
in the early 1990's, I was working in a rape crisis center on the South
side of Chicago. I was a clinical sex abuse therapist, working with
kids who were sexually abused. I was the fifth Caucasian hired and the
first Jew. As I worked with the kids, I had to learn about black
history, Kwanzaa, and black power. I started realizing that I knew more
about their heritage than I did about my own. That's when I started
learning about Judaism."
Luke: "How did you start getting support for The Awareness Center, particularly from Orthodox rabbis?"
Vicki: "As I was recreating the web page (theawarenesscenter.org),
I was also googling Jewish web pages finding e-mail addresses and
sending notes to everyone who had an e-mail address listed -- letting
them know what I was doing and asking if they were interested in joining
forces. That's how I met Na'ama Yehuda, Dr. Michael Salamon and rabbi [Yosef] Blau and rabbi [Mark] Dratch.
I'll never forget when I got an e-mail back from rabbi Blau, I didn't
know who he was. I had to ask someone who he was. My friend told me he
was OK and I should contact him. I did that immediately and the rest is
history."
Luke: "What have been the typical areas of conflict between you and Orthodox rabbis regarding the center?"
Vicki:
"It seems that everybody has a different perspective on halacha and the
way we deal with cases. It all depends on which case we're dealing
with, what the halacha seems to be."
Luke: "Why did rabbi Dratch leave the center?"
Vicki:
"He was under a great deal of pressure with his position with the RCA.
It was a conflict of interest between the two organizations. You would
have to ask him."
Luke: "How is dealing with sexual abuse different in the Orthodox world than outside of it?"
Vicki: "First of all, the Awareness Center
is not an Orthodox organization. It is a Jewish organization. We have
individuals calling us from all affiliations and including those from no
affiliation. On our web page we have cases of alleged and convicted
rabbi abuse from every affiliation.
"In the secular
world, people read newspapers and watch TV. They tend to be pretty
progressive in the way they see individuals who have been sexually
victimized, especially children. In the Orthodox world, it is often so
insulated, that I feel that I am back in the 1980s trying to educate
them on the basics. Many just don't have the information available to
them that they need."
Luke: "How do you tell the truth when someone alleges sexual abuse?"
Vicki:
"One of the myths that people have is that the majority of claims
individuals make of sexual violence are made up. You have to realize
that it is only 1-2 percent of cases where there might be false
allegations. If and when there is a case of false allegations -- it is
usually a cry for help, something else is going on in the life of the
individual. Either way, the individual needs help.
"One of the things The Awareness Center does is to look for consistency in what a caller is saying.
"The statistics
of occurrences of childhood sexual abuse is the same in the Orthodox
world as it is in the secular world. I even read a study some time ago
saying the statistics are the same in rural China. Basically one out of
three-to-five women and one out of every five-to-seven men have been sexually abused by their 18th birthday."
Luke: "Don't you think the Jewish community is taking this more seriously than it has in the past?"
Vicki:
"It depends on which community you are talking about. I was recently
talking to a rabbi from an extremely insulated community -- he basically
was saying that anybody who makes these kind of allegations is crazy.
It appeared that he bought into the myth that 'Jewish people don't abuse
their children.' It enraged me, and made me more determined to do what
ever I could to make sure our rabbinic leaders become educated."
Luke: "What is rabbi Saul Berman's complaint with the center?"
Vicki: "His complaint has mainly to do with our handling of the case of rabbi Mordechai Gafni.
From the beginning, I've had no idea where he was coming from and why
he is trying to protect an individual who confessed to statuary rape a
13-year old girl. Rabbi Gafni
has never shown any signs of remorse. He has never made teshuva
[repentance] to the individual he assaulted. Rabbi Berman has sent The Awareness Center
several long elaborate letters of complaint. No matter what we did or
said, he just wasn't satisfied. It's obvious that he is lacking the
needed education so that he could have a better understanding of sex
offenders and in working with survivors of sexual violence. It saddens
and scares me that a man of his statute is not willing to learn."
Luke: "Do you feel like you need to educate these rabbis?"
Vicki:
"Definitely. I'd love to do training with them. One of the long-term
goals of The Awareness Center is to have some kind of certification
program for rabbis. Once they are educated we would be able to use them
as referral sources for survivors, their family members and those who
offend."
Luke: "How much training does a rabbi need?"
Vicki:
"When I worked as a rape victims advocate, I had to undergo a 40-hour
training on some of the basics. That's what I wanted to start out with.
Rabbis need to understand what the symptoms are of someone who has been
sexually violated (both adults and children). They need to know about
the different types of sex offenders, and how to help families members
of sex offenders. They also need to know what to do when an alleged or
convicted sex offender comes to their minyan. They need to know some of
the basics of how to make their minyans safe for everyone."
Luke: "What role does rabbi Blau play with the center?"
Vicki:
"He's my partner in crime. He is our halachic advisor, does a lot of
hands on work -- doing a lot of case management. And most important,
he's always explaining to me -- who's who in the Orthodox world."
Luke: "Do you believe that God called you to be a sex abuse victims advocate?"
Vicki:
"It's hard for me to say that it comes from God. Please remember that I
come from an atheist background. I'm really learning as I go along.
What I feel comfortable saying is that the universe has opened its doors
in this direction for me. Every time I try to walk away, it just
doesn't let me."
Luke: "Have you ever been romantically or sexually involved with someone you were [counseling]?"
Vicki: "No."
Luke: "What do you think about suppressed memories, are they valid?"
Vicki: "Instead of me answering this question, I would like to refer you to a dynamic web page that discusses all of the relevant information on the topic."
Luke: "Is the center a one woman show?"
Vicki:
"The Awareness Center is a coalition of several different individuals
who are dedicated to ending sexual victimization in Jewish communities
around the world. We currently are all volunteers (I can't wait until
the day we have the funding we need to hire staff). I may be the most
visable, but we have a team effort going on. We would not be able to do
the work I'm doing without Rabbi Yosef Blau, Na'ama Yehuda, Dr. Michael
Salamon, Renee Cannella, San, Adam and a slew of other people.
Luke: "Are you the poster “Me” (AKA: Jewish Whistleblower)?"
Vicki:
"I am NOT the individual who posted on the Protocols blog, who used the
name of "ME" (AKA: Jewish Whistleblower). I wish I was as intellegent
and as articulate. The "ME" poster has a vast knowledge of Hebrew and
Torah. I don't."